[lucerna] does faith alone justify the degenerate offspring?

Lucerna Discussion lucerna@lists.newearth.org
Sat Jun 10 10:03:49 HST 2006


Well, again, my first reaction is to an assertion (yet another arcanum) in 
the first paragraph of this message. Considering the emphasis put upon 
"faith alone" in the Protestant (including Lutheran) Movement, and the 
condemnation of "faith alone" found in the Writings of Emmanuel Swedenborg, 
it is indeed an arcanum to me for you to write that: "All of these 
'branches' are the degenerate offspring of the 'Lutheran' or 'Protestant' 
Church."

Indeed, considering the personal history you have just laid out, what is it 
you are expecting to find on this website "LUCERNA"? Alan

>Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin 
>Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>Subject: Re: [lucerna] JESUS as CHRIST
>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:28:59 -0400

The first difficulty you must realize is my attempt to distill what
>really amounts to a whole lifetime of work into a few succinct paragraphs 
>to enlighten you on the 'mysteries'. Because my work is outside of the 'New 
>Church Movement' I can only guess that the 'five branches' referred to the 
>different denominations that have sprung up around the Writings. All of 
>these 'branches' are the degenerate offspring of the 'Lutheran' or 
>'Protestant' Church. The Writings refer to the middle of the 7th week of 
>Daniel in the descriptive.

I was baptized upon the order of the General Church of the New Jerusalem at 
Morning Star Chapel in Alpharetta, Georgia in the last part of the year 
2002. I told them then and I will tell you now that I appreciate the fact 
that they were there for me. But at the end of the day my perception of what 
they are about on my first trip there still holds. I said on my way there  
that first Sunday in July of 2002, "We are the holders of the secret 
knowledges. We cannot tell anyone." I laughed all the way there. Of course, 
a church of librarians. Wouldn't you know it. The spiritual meaning of the 
Word is held by the Church of the librarians. Later in September of 2003 the 
Office of Holy Oil (Coptic modified to New Church standards by myself) was 
officiated by Rev. Donald K. Rogers a priest of the General Church of the 
New Jerusalem who resigned his commission earlier and changed his name and 
blames that religion for driving him insane.

I don't deny the power of the Word or that of the 'office of priest' as 
being without authority. The state of the New Church I describe
>for out of the Word as this: In Luke, "And all they in the synagogue, when 
>they heard these things (Jesus anounces Himself as the Anointed), were 
>filled with wrath, and rose up, and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him 
>unto the brow of the hill, (whereupon the city was built,) that they might 
>cast Him down headlong. iv. 28, 29. The state that the New Church is to 
>enter into now is further described by what happens next. "But He passing 
>through the midst of them, went His way, And came down to Capernaum, a city 
>of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath-days. And they were astonished 
>at His doctrine: for His Word was with power." 30, 31.

I left off attendance at one of the dead branches because the clergy at 
Mornging Star Chapel literally deny the Word of God. The spiritual 
experience left me gasping for breath. The Lord in His Divine Mercy led me 
to attend Saint Gabriel Ethiopian Orthodox Church. The life of His Church 
can be found in the Orthodox
>practices that are retained by this Oriental Orthodox Church (look in the 
>Orient for the Ancient Word) as taught by the Lord to His disciples which 
>established His Church. The Divine Human is worshipped there and the Word 
>is literally believed and known.

In todays world Jesus is seen as the sacrificial or bloody atonement
>to the Father God. Swedenborgian theology defines the concept of the Divine 
>Human that will be seen and worshipped in the future sense differently. 
>When you come to realize that Jesus is the Anointed, physically and 
>literally then you can understand what this future definition means. 
>Ultimate truth is so simple a child can understand. In the future, a little 
>child is going to ask their mother, "But how come men didn't understand 
>that Jesus is the Anointed? It is His name."

Additions to True Christian Religion
>VII. The Thoughts of Materialists Respecting God. “Those who are constantly 
>in a material idea, like the learned who are in the mere rudiments of 
>philosophy, and think that they are wise, if they acknowledge God, adore 
>the mere phrase, that there is a God. But if they are told that God is Man, 
>and that the Lord and Savior Jesus the Anointed is that Man, they do not 
>acknowledge it; because their thought respecting Him is material, and not 
>at the same time spiritual, wherefore they also separate His Divine Essence 
>from His Humanity, and declare that there is a mystical conjunction between 
>them.”

Your brother in the Anointed, literally "Greg"
>
>
>>Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin 
>>Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>>To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>>Subject: [lucerna] JESUS as CHRIST
>>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:26:33 -0400
>>
>>Well, my first reaction to this message was: "What is the arcanum 
>>contained
>>in Greg's writing that 'the "priesthood" for the New Church has not yet 
>>been
>>established?'" Since you chose to refer to the Robert Hindmarsh story
>>(reported by Elmo Acton) on the one hand, and here refer to anointment 
>>with
>>the "'oil' of Moses" on the other hand, I take it that you object to the
>>idea of the New Church Movement (so that it encompasses five or so 
>>branches)
>>claiming to have a "priesthood" when the members of that "priesthood" have
>>not been ordained (anointed) with the "'oil' of Moses." Is that meant to
>>suggest that all acts performed by so-called "priests" over the 200+ year
>>life of the New Church Movement have been in vain spiritually?
>>
>>A second question that comes to my mind for you is: "The fact that you are
>>emphasizing the anointing of Jesus--which is the Hebrew identity of THE
>>CHRIST, if you will allow me to say it that way--does this in any way lead
>>us away from the importance of Jesus as 'The Christ'?"
>>
>>Regards, Alan
>>
>>
>> >Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin
>> >Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>> >To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> >Subject: Re: [lucerna] aclimatizing to the terminology
>> >Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:50:30 -0400
>> >
>> >Alan I appreciate your asking me to expound on the subject. The object 
>>of
>> >the Hierosolyma is to understand the hidden meaning within the Writings. 
>>My
>> >work is to make that mystery known. I have never been in a discussion
>> >thread
>> >and so please accept my apologies for my lack of education. According to 
>>my
>> >studies the 'priesthood' for the New Church has not yet been 
>>established.
>> >The use of the blessed 'oil' is required. This also goes to the return
>> >concept and the need to understand the hidden literal meaning by looking 
>>to
>> >the Hebrew KNH. It is this literal truth that ties all of these concepts
>> >together.
>> >
>> >The question on whether one accepts that Jesus is the Anointed goes to 
>>this
>> >subject as well. It has been my experience from engagements with
>> >Swedenborgian 'virtual priests' that they do not accept that Jesus is or
>> >was
>> >ever physically anointed. Which of coarse is rather odd when one
>> >contemplates the importance of the literal Word in Swedenborgian 
>>theology.
>> >When one accepts the fact that Jesus is the Anointed then the question
>> >becomes with what? According to the Writings the answers are oblique in
>> >that
>> >the CALAM* is claimed to be the third term in Exodus 30:23. All Biblical
>> >scholars are in agreement that this term is in error for the Hebrew KNH
>> >BSM.
>> >
>> >My studies further prove without question that the priesthood must be
>> >'ordained' and 'sanctified' according to the law of Moses. These studies
>> >are
>> >based upon not only the Writings but the Oriental Orthodox Church
>> >doctrines.
>> >It seems that they have dispensed with the use of the 'oil' and now use 
>>a
>> >fabrication termed 'chrismation' that does not conform. Anyway, the
>> >question
>> >is whether one accepts the literal truth of the Word. Is Jesus the
>> >Anointed?
>> >It the answer to this question that goes to the heart of the mystery of 
>>the
>> >Writings and their hidden meaning. Did the Lord speak to Moses? To 
>>reform
>> >the New Church the priesthood must be established base upon His Divine
>> >order.
>> >
>> >The term 'sanctified' and 'ordained' mean clearly that the initiate is
>> >anointed with the 'oil' of Moses. And that opens up the whole ball of 
>>wax.
>> >What is the third term in the Holy anointing oil of Moses in Exodus 
>>30:23?
>> >In order to establish the priesthood for His New Church we need to know. 
>>My
>> >work establishes the undeniable fact of what it is. This fact is what 
>>will
>> >cause the division in the 'Christian Church' and establish in the mind 
>>who
>> >the antichrist is. The antichrist is the doctrine of those who say that 
>>the
>> >Lord's anointing oil, Lev. 10:7 is no longer a 'representative'.
>> >
>> >Your brother in the Anointed, literally
>> >
>> >"Greg"
>> >
>> >
>> > >Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin
>> > >Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>> > >To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> > >Subject: [lucerna] aclimatizing to the terminology
>> > >Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:35:18 -0400
>> > >
>> > >Well, Brother Gregory, my name is Alan Longstaff, and I have just
>> > >transferred over to LUCERNA from the REFORM website, and I think I 
>>need
>> >to
>> > >aclimatize myself.
>> > >
>> > >I see that the subject is "The Priesthood," or perhaps the "virtual
>> > >priesthood," and while I am familiar with the terms you are using--eg.
>> > >"Anointed"--I'm not yet sufficiently sure of the terminology--ie. the 
>>use
>> > >being made of the terms--to answer your questions. Alan
>> > >
>> > > >Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin
>> > > >Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>> > > >To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> > > >Subject: Re: [lucerna] Lucerna discussion
>> > > >Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:30:20 -0400
>> > > >
>> > > >On the question of ordination of the priesthood the following is the
>> > > >doctrine of the Swedenborgian Churches that recognize that only a
>> > >"virtual
>> > > >priesthood" has been established.This report was authoritatively
>> >written
>> > >by
>> > > >Rt. Rev. Elmo Acton on, "The Priesthood" and reported in New Church
>> >Life
>> > > >1973:93:399-410
>> > > >
>> > > >The History
>> > > >Our subject properly begins with the first New Church ordination or
>> > > >inauguration, which took place in London, England, in 1788. A group 
>>of
>> > >men
>> > > >who met regularly, beginning in 1783, for the purpose of reading and
>> > > >studying the Writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, gradually came to see 
>>that
>> > > >those Writings revealed the consummation of the former church and 
>>the
>> > > >beginning of a new dispensation of the church. For the uses of this 
>>new
>> > > >church to exist in the world, they saw that it would be necessary to
>> >form
>> > >a
>> > > >distinct organization, and they began by introducing a new and 
>>separate
>> > > >worship, with baptism and administration of the Holy Supper. This
>> >shortly
>> > > >led them to see that for the orderly performance of worship and the
>> > > >sacraments a new priesthood was necessary. At first they considered
>> > > >requesting ordination from one of the existing churches, but 
>>gradually
>> > >they
>> > > >came to see that as the New Jerusalem was the beginning of a new
>> > > >dispensation of the church, it must derive its authority immediately
>> >from
>> > > >the Lord in His second coming. They were enlightened to observe the
>> > > >following order. The names of the sixteen men constituting the group
>> >were
>> > > >placed in a receptacle, and of them twelve were chosen. On one of 
>>the
>> > >lots,
>> > > >which were prepared by Robert Hindmarsh, he wrote the word "Ordain."
>> >This
>> > > >lot was drawn by himself. Then, without the other eleven men knowing
>> >this
>> > > >fact, Hindmarsh was chosen by them to read the service. The twelve 
>>then
>> > > >placed their right hands upon the heads of James Hindmarsh and 
>>Samuel
>> > > >Smith,
>> > > >Robert Hindmarsh reading the service, and ordained them as priests 
>>in
>> >the
>> > > >Lord's New Church. Thus began the priesthood of the New Church.
>> > > >The church only gradually came to see fully that Robert Hindmarsh by
>> >this
>> > > >procedure was the first ordained priest of the New Church. It was 
>>not
>> > >until
>> > > >the Conference of 1818, thirty years later, that the following
>> >resolution
>> > > >was passed:
>> > > >". . . in consequence of Mr. R. Hindmarsh having been called by lot 
>>to
>> > > >ordain the first minister in the New Church, this Conference 
>>consider
>> >it
>> > >as
>> > > >the most orderly method which could then be adopted and that Mr. R.
>> > > >Hindmarsh was virtually ordained by the Divine auspices of heaven; 
>>in
>> > > >consequence of which this Conference consider Mr. Hindmarsh as one 
>>of
>> >the
>> > > >regular ordaining ministers."
>> > > >
>> > > >The question I ask you all is this: Since the name Jesus signifies 
>>the
>> > > >Divine Goodness and Christ signifies Divine Truth, Is the Divine 
>>Truth
>> > > >literally true? Is Jesus the Anointed, literally? My study has shown
>> > > >conclusively in the Writings that this is affirmatively true. Can 
>>you
>> > > >confess that Jesus is the Anointed, physically and literally? Are 
>>you
>> > > >sanctified? Or are you anti-anointed?
>> > > >
>> > > >Your brother in the Anointed,
>> > > >
>> > > >"Greg"
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin
>> > > > >Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>> > > > >To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> > > > >Subject: Re: [lucerna] Lucerna discussion
>> > > > >Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:09:12 EDT
>> > > > >
>> > > > >In a message dated 6/9/2006 9:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> > > > >brothergregory@hotmail.com writes:
>> > > > >You are the only one so far to even give me a response. Your
>> > > > >reply seems to be from out of your own self intelligence.
>> > > > >To say that one is replying out of their "own self intelligence" 
>>is
>> > > >perhaps
>> > > > >not the best way to encourage anyone to respond to you.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Out of whose intelligence are you writing?
>> > > > >This whole discussion of 'doctrine drawn out of the Latin Word' is 
>>in
>> > > >error
>> > > > >according to the Writings.
>> > > > >Would you please indicate more precisely from the "Writings" how 
>>this
>> > > >whole
>> > > > >discussion of 'doctrine drawn out of the Latin Word' is in error?
>> >Could
>> > > >you
>> > > > >please show passages from the "Writings" that lead you to this
>> > > >conclusion?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > The Word is written in 'Hebrew' and later the Gospel and
>> >Revelation
>> > >is
>> > > > >written in Greek.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Do you believe that the Word was also later written in Latin?
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Hugh
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >_______________________________________________
>> > > > >lucerna mailing list
>> > > > >lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> > > > >http://novahierosolyma.org/mailman/listinfo/lucerna
>> > > >
>> > > >_________________________________________________________________
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>> > > >_______________________________________________
>> > > >lucerna mailing list
>> > > >lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>> > > >http://novahierosolyma.org/mailman/listinfo/lucerna
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
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>> > >http://novahierosolyma.org/mailman/listinfo/lucerna
>> >
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>>
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