[lucerna] which is your authority?

Lucerna Discussion lucerna@lists.newearth.org
Wed Jun 14 09:48:20 HST 2006


I'm flommoxed, Brother Greg: if you are so disapproving of the General 
Church establishment then why would you write "I quote Bishop Pendleton and 
the Writings to prove this subsequent discovery," as one of your authorities 
[13-06-2006 18:59:55, your second message below]. And since there were three 
Bishops Pendleton, which one is your authority? Alan


>Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin 
>Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>Subject: Re: [lucerna] aclimatizing to the terminology
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:46:45 -0400

Hugh, I quote here the pertinent parts that are referred to and then close
>with an Editorial comment in parenthesis. The final parenthesis quote is 
>from the Writings and sites an exhaustive examination of this subject in 
>the Writings.
>
>In D.L.W. 222 “I have often wondered that the angels have such knowledge 
>from the mere action of the body through the hands; but that it is so has 
>been shown to me repeatedly by living experience, and it has been said that 
>it is from this that inductions into the ministry are performed by the 
>laying on of the hands, and that "touching with the hand" signifies 
>communicating, with other like things. From all this the conclusion is 
>formed, that the all of charity and faith is in works, and that charity and 
>faith without works are like rainbows about the sun, which vanish away and 
>are dispersed by a cloud. On this account "works" and "doing works" are so 
>often mentioned in the Word, and it is said that a man's salvation depends 
>upon these; moreover, he that doeth is called a wise man, and he that doeth 
>not is called a foolish man. But it should be remembered that by "works" 
>here are meant uses actually done; for the all of charity and faith is in 
>uses and according to uses. There is this correspondence of works with 
>uses, because the correspondence is spiritual, but it is carried out 
>through substances and matters, which are subjects. (Note: As can be 
>readily seen in this quote, “it is carried out through substances and 
>matters,” Ed.)
>
>C.L. 396 “Hence also it is that at this day, inauguration into the 
>priesthood is made by the laying on of hands.” (Note: This refers to the 
>middle of the 7th week of Daniel. Ed.)
>
>A.E. 79 “[2] The reason why to touch with the hand denotes to communicate, 
>and to transfer to another, is, because all the power of man is transferred 
>from the body into the hands; therefore, what the mind wills that the body 
>should do, the arms and hands perform accordingly. Hence it is that by arms 
>and hands in the Word is signified power (as may be seen, Arcana Coelestia, 
>n. 878, 3091, 4931-4937. 6947, 7673, 10,019); this power, however, is 
>natural power,” (Note: The reference here is to natural power which of 
>coarse we know to be from out of the proprium. Ed.)
>
>A.C. 6292  'Place your right hand on his head' means that good should 
>accordingly occupy the first place. This is clear from the meaning of 
>'placing the right hand on a head' as considering to occupy the first 
>place, as above in 6269, 6287. The placing of his hand by one on the head 
>of another when he was going to bless belonged to a custom received from 
>the ancients For the head is where a person's actual powers of 
>understanding and will reside, whereas the body is where actions in 
>response and in obedience to them are located. Thus 'placing a hand on the 
>head' was a representative act, denoting that a blessing should be imparted 
>to a person's understanding and will, thus to his real self. That same 
>custom originating in those ancient times remains even to this day and is 
>followed at ordinations as well as in blessings. (From the Arcana Coelestia 
>9954 (1) “It is of interest to know what is implied in all this, since 
>anointing has remained in practice from ancient times down to the present 
>day (monarchs are anointed), and anointing is held to be holy today in just 
>the same way as it was in former times.” 9475, 9954, 10249 & 10267 Ed.)
>
>Greg
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: Discussion on doctrine drawn out of the Latin 
>>Word<lucerna@novahierosolyma.org>
>>To: lucerna@novahierosolyma.org
>>Subject: Re: [lucerna] aclimatizing to the terminology
>>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:59:55 -0400
>>
>>
>>Hugh,
>>
>>My study on this subject is entitled 'Doctrine of Divine Truth' and quotes
>>from source material. It is 40 pages long 12 pt. type 1 1/2 line spacing.
>>This is the first paper I did. I only include a minimal amount of Ed.
>>comment maybe 7 lines tops. Subsecquent papers document my spiritual
>>experiences on this subject. The subject is anything but as simple as you
>>state. This is the mystery you all are trying to understand. I really am
>>trying to tell you. My rude behaviour is directly attributed to the
>>difficulty I have had in trying to relay my discoveries to the General
>>Church of the New Jerusalem. But anyway, if you would like to take a look 
>>at
>>this paper you can then decide if you want to go deeper into the
>>'mysteries'.
>>
>>The 'laying on of the hands' is a 'mystery' statement that hides the true
>>meaning for those who are not 'adept'. My further research shows that the
>>Sacrament of Baptism' is to include three seperate degrees in the New
>>Church. I quote Bishop Pendleton and the Writings to prove this subsequent
>>discovery.
>>
>>I do apologize for my rude behaviour and seek your forgiveness.
>>
>>Greg
>>
>> >
>> >Hugh:
>> >I think that pretty much settles that.  If Gregory can't accept that I
>> >think he is making a serious disturbance as he would be putting the 
>>remote
>> >revelation (the Bible) of the Word over the proximal revelation (the
>> >Writings of Swedenborg) of the Word.  You are absolutely right.  I hope 
>>he
>> >sees this.  If he doesn't, I will stop discussing matters with him.
>> >Richard C.
>> >
>> >-------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> >In a message dated 6/10/2006 10:49:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> >arcam1970@comcast.net writes:
>> >Your real question should be about the Lord's New Church and its 
>>ordination
>> >practices and should we follow the Law of Moses?
>> >The Third Testament indicates that inaugurations into the Priesthood are 
>>to
>> >be done with the "laying on of hands," see DLW 220, CL 396, AE 79, AC 
>>6292.
>> >
>> >True, inaugurations were performed by anointing with oil as was done by
>> >Moses to Aaron and his sons. (see Leviticus 8:12 and 8:30) However, to 
>>be
>> >fair it must be pointed out that such inaugurations were also to include
>> >sacrifices (Lev. 8:14-30 and special clothing (Lev. 8:7-9;13) So if it 
>>is
>> >insisted (as Greg seems to be saying) that Priests be anointed as Moses 
>>was
>> >commanded to do, then animal sacrifice must be included as part of the
>> >ritual. (Lev. 8:17,21,29,36)
>> >
>> >Hugh
>>
>>
>>
>> >_______________________________________________
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>>
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