[lucerna] the divine priesthood?

Lucerna Discussion lucerna@lists.newearth.org
Wed Jun 14 14:21:30 HST 2006


Richard, you write, “priests of the New Church both represent and 
communicate with the Lord and thus perform a divine function.” I don’t 
understand your use of the word “divine” in any of this. Also, to 
“communicate with the Lord,” is this in any way like the Catholic priesthood 
as intercessors between man (the laity) and God? What exactly is “a divine 
function”? Although priests represent the Lord—on that we agree—how do they 
do any-thing that is “divine”? When they administer the Holy Supper, are 
they part of the process of conjunction with the “Divine”? Speaking of the 
Lord, how precisely does “His Divinity” act through the priesthood?   Alan

>To: "Alan Longstaff" <xenolith44@msn.com>
>CC: lucerna-request@novahierosolyma.org (LUCERNA)
>Subject: Re: more technical correction (<;
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:18:05 +0000

What I see as the"divine institution" of the Priesthood may be what it is to 
become in my mind and not what it is now in reality outside of my mind.  In 
my mind, priests of the New Church both represent and communicate with the 
Lord and thus perform a divine function and their collective is a divine 
institution.  Good priests and bad priests participate in this divine 
institution which serves divine uses not the least of which is to teach us 
all divine lessons.  What the Priesthood actually is right now, or what its 
state is, I don't know and out of fear almost don't wish to know.  I have 
faith that the Lord will bring up humanity with the Priesthood of His New 
Church from His Divinity acting through it, but how, I don't know yet.
>Richard C.
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
> > Well, Richard, this is where the 'rubber meets the road' as to the state 
>of
> > the current debate. I have written that the 'Descending Line' is a 
>function,
> > and in the PRESENT state of the church, the priesthood REPRESENTS that
> > function. Similarly, the 'Ascending Line' is a function, and when 
>priests
> > participate in THAT function they do not do so as priests. Certainly, if 
>one
> > views the priests as 'running the church,' it is not going to be 
>accepted as
> > "dominion ... given to the Descending Line." Thus, ALL MEMBERS 
>participate
> > in the 'Ascending Line': but "the priests" DO NOT "participate in it" as
> > priests, and they have not come to see this idea as yet.
> >
> > You have been portraying yourself as a doctrinal "conservative" and 
>perhaps
> > one might use the expression 'traditionalist.' I realize from remarks 
>you
> > have made in passing that you more or less observed Philip Odhner as
> > exercising the "dominion ... given to the Descending Line." However, I 
>never
> > found that to be the case in the discussions I had with him, albeit, 
>that
> > was in his later years after he was 'fired' as pastor in 1990.
> >
> > In order for the "process" you "envision for the Church" to work, we do
> > INDEED need to come to that state where "no distinction between" the 
>"laymen
> > and ordained priests" exists when they are allowing "the Lord to raise 
>up
> > their intellect and report new interpretations of the New Word." That is
> > part of the current struggle: trying to have the priests come down off 
>the
> > pedestal on which they've put themselves at present.
> >
> > In educating you on 'ideas' concerning the priesthood, I must disclose 
>to
> > you that I am not well regarded by the priests at present, and certainly 
>you
> > must not regard my 'ideas' as representing the priests' position! 
>(Stephen
> > Burleigh is more or less in the same predicament.) Now, while I might 
>say to
> > you that the priesthood should be in freedom to "administor" the 
>priesthood,
> > the priesthood DOES NOT have the sole responsibility for defining the
> > priesthood! That is why lay members are taking apparent liberties in
> > speaking out. Also, I would be interested to know why you refer to the
> > priesthood as a "divine institution." Other than the fact that priests
> > "stand in for" the Lord, I know of nothing "divine" about the 
>institution
> > (other than its representations). And what does this expression "thus 
>NOT
> > AUTHORIZED TO AFFIRM but only to report their perceptions" mean? [my
> > emphasis]
> >
> > Also, understand that this is just you and I having a discussion. I'm 
>not
> > trying to tell you what to think or recruit you as my ally or cultivate 
>you
> > as a special friend. (<; Alan
> >
> > >Subject: Re: Alan’s technical correction
> > >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:07:48 +0000
> >
> > Alan, I think I see what you are saying and that I am technically 
>incorrect.
> > The Descending Line is the Priesthood and not both the Ascending and
> > Descending Lines. For years and years I have considered the "ordained"
> > Priesthood to be the Descending Line of the Priesthood and all of the 
>men of
> > the Church contributing together to be the Ascending Line of the 
>Priesthood,
> > and with dominion (if you'll excuse the term) given to the Descending 
>Line.
> > The process I envision for the Church is that laymen and ordained 
>priests
> > with no distinction between them allow the Lord to raise up their 
>intellect
> > and report new interpretations of the New Word. Ordained priests decide
> > what is to be accepted as the genuine Doctrine of the Church. This may 
>not
> > be the current perception. So where I've been wrong is in believing the
> > Ascending Line to be related to or part of the Priesthood, although the
> > priests must participate in it.
> >
> > Feel free to educate me on the current, accepted view of the Priesthood
> > including definitions of the Ascending and Descending Lines and the
> > ordination rituals as well. I will respect what you, Stephen, Hugh, 
>Dushan,
> > Risto and Andrei have to relate about their personal perception of that
> > divine institution, the Priesthood. I also respect what Leon, David,
> > Michael and Lori have to say about their perception of that divine
> > institution as long as they accept the fact that they are not "ordained" 
>and
> > thus not in the Descending Line and thus not authorized to affirm but 
>only
> > to report their perceptions.
> >
> > What I don't respect is that aspect of anyone who thinks that the Church 
>has
> > been "wrong" for not ordaining women all these years or who thinks we 
>should
> > still be practicing ritual from the Law of Moses in ultimates or that 
>the
> > Lord's New Church's fortune is the natural wealth (money) held by the
> > Corporation ("that organization"?) as long as those people think such
> > thoughts.
> >
> > Richard Campbell arcam1970@comcast.net
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > > Dear Richard, when you wrote on Monday [12-06-2006 13:38:15] to 
>Stephen,
> > > > “the importance of understanding the Circle of Life in ourselves, 
>and
> > >how it
> > > > relates to the Ascending Line and Descending Line of the Priesthood, 
>you
> > > > couldn't be more right,” well, technically, I think one could be 
>more
> > > > correct. I think you have missed some things from earlier on in the
> > >REFORM
> > > > dialogue. I will admit that what follows is MY technical correction, 
>but
> > >the
> > > > “Ascending Line” has no relation to the priesthood whatsoever as 
>such.
> > > >
> > > > >Reply-To: Organization and government issues
> > > > >Subject: Re: [reform] regeneration... proceeds from the external 
>man
> > > > >totheinternal (Ascending Line) + return to the 
>externalman(Descending
> > >Line)
> > > > >Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:38:15 +0000
> > > >
> > > > Stephen: As far as seeing the importance of understanding the circle 
>of
> > >life
> > > > in ourselves and how it relates to the ascending Line and Descending
> > >Line of
> > > > the Priesthood you couldn't be more right. I don't see it relating 
>to
> > >the
> > > > sequence of churches, however. I don't see that sequence as proper 
>to
> > >the
> > > > individual only as proper to the Lord and to the masses of 
>individuals
> > >from
> > > > our planet Earth. I'll only encourage you to coninue investigating 
>that
> > > > topic. >Richard C.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >From: "Stephen D. Burleigh"
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi Richard,
> > > > >
> > > > >Divine Providence says:
> > > > >"[3] There is in all things of the human mind this circle of love 
>to
> > > > >thoughts [Descending Line?] and from thoughts to love from love
> > >[Ascending
> > > > >Line?], a circle which may be called the circle of life. "
> > > > >(Divine Providence (Dick and Pulsford) n. 29)
> > > > >In Arcana Coelestia 10057:
> > > > >"Such is the circle of things out of the world through the natural 
>man
> > >into
> > > > >his spiritual man [Ascending Line], and from this again into the 
>world
> > > > >[Descending Line - from spiritual man into the natural man]. But be 
>it
> > > > >known that this circle is instituted from the will, which is the 
>inmost
> > >of
> > > > >man's life, and that it begins there, and is from this 
>accomplished;
> > >and
> > > > >the will of a man who is in good is directed from heaven by the 
>Lord,
> > > > >though it appears otherwise. For there is an influx from the 
>spiritual
> > > > >world into the natural, thus through the internal man into his
> > >external,
> > > > >but not the reverse; for the internal man is in heaven, but the
> > >external in
> > > > >the world. [3] As this circle is the circle of man's life, 
>therefore
> > >during
> > > > >man's regeneration he is regenerated according to the same, and 
>when he
> > >has
> > > > >been regenerated, he lives and acts in accordance with it. 
>Therefore
> > >during
> > > > >man's regeneration the truths which are to be of faith are 
>insinuated
> > > > >through the hearing and sight, and !
> > > > > these t
> > > > >ruths are implanted in the memory of his natural man [Descending 
>Line -
> > > > >truths as seeds are implanted in the memory of the natural man]. 
>From
> > >this
> > > > >memory they are withdrawn into the thought that belongs to the
> > > > >understanding, and those which are loved become of the will 
>[Ascending
> > > > >Line] ; and insofar as they become of the will, they become of the
> > >life,
> > > > >for the will of man is his very life; and insofar as they become of 
>the
> > > > >life, they become of his affection, thus of charity in the will and 
>of
> > > > >faith in the understanding. Afterward the man speaks and acts from 
>this
> > > > >life, which is the life of charity and of faith; from charity which 
>is
> > >of
> > > > >the will goes forth the speech of the mouth and also the act of the
> > >body,
> > > > >both by way of the understanding, thus by the way of faith. From 
>all
> > >this
> > > > >it is evident that the circle of the regeneration of man is like 
>the
> > >circle
> > > > >of his life in general; and that it is in like manner instituted in 
>the
> > > > >will by means of an influx out of heaven from the!
> > > > > Lord.
> > > > >[4] Hence also it is plain that there are two states in the man who 
>is
> > > > >being regenerated, the first when the truths of faith are being
> > >implanted
> > > > >and conjoined with the good of charity, the second when he speaks 
>from
> > >the
> > > > >good of charity by means of the truths of faith, and acts according 
>to
> > > > >these; thus that the first state is from the world through the 
>natural
> > >man
> > > > >into the spiritual, thus into heaven [Ascending Line]; and the 
>second
> > >is
> > > > >from heaven through the spiritual man into the natural, thus into 
>the
> > >world
> > > > >[Descending Line]. As said above, the spiritual or internal man is 
>in
> > > > >heaven, and the natural or external man is in the world. This 
>circle is
> > >the
> > > > >circle of the regeneration of man, and consequently is the circle 
>of
> > >his
> > > > >spiritual life (concerning this twofold state of the man who is 
>being
> > > > >regenerated, see the places cited in n. 9274). "
> > > > >(Arcana Coelestia (Potts) n. 10057:2-4)
> > > > >So it appears that Divine Providence 29 starts the circle of life 
>with
> > >an
> > > > >angelic state since it is taking about angels [from internal man?]. 
>And
> > >the
> > > > >order presented here is from the love to thought, which might be 
>the
> > > > >Descending line and then from thought to love from love, which 
>might be
> > >the
> > > > >Ascending Line.
> > > > >
> > > > >AC 10057 starts the circle in the natural man thus in an 
>unregenerate
> > >state
> > > > >unlike Divine Providence 29 and proceeds to the spiritual man 
>[heaven].
> > > > >Also AC 10057 speaks about the Lord's glorification of His Human 
>which
> > >also
> > > > >starts in an unglorified state thus in the Ascending Line.
> > > > >
> > > > >I wonder if this might explain how these two numbers although
> > >apparently
> > > > >different are in agreement with one another.
> > > > >
> > > > >It is not clear to me what to make of the three advents you refer 
>to in
> > > > >your email.
> > > > >What I have noted in my mind is that the circle of life starts in
> > >chapter
> > > > >one of Genesis in the Arcana as the Ascending Line followed by the
> > >seventh
> > > > >day [the end of the Ascending Line and the beginning of the 
>Descending
> > > > >Line]. The history of the Most Ancient Church is spoken about here
> > > > >beginning of the seventh day, the second chapter of Genesis. I see 
>this
> > >as
> > > > >the beginning of the Descending Line.
> > > > >
> > > > >Since the purpose of the Lord's Word is not to teach us history, it 
>has
> > > > >been seen in the church that this second chapter of the Arcana is 
>about
> > >the
> > > > >first perception of the Divine given to a person in the church as
> > >described
> > > > >on page 9 in the Handbook as:
> > > > >1. The presence of the Lord through the perception of His Divine in 
>the
> > > > >Word, and the acknowledgment of His Omnipotence, Omniscience and
> > > > >Omnipresence.
> > > > >It should be noted here that the Formation of the Church starts 
>with
> > >the
> > > > >Descending Line (from the internal man to the external man). In Mr.
> > > > >Groeneveld's class in 1955, he refers to the Pre-Adamic state, 
>which
> > >would
> > > > >be an Ascending Line preceding this perception of the Divine.
> > > > >
> > > > >If one views the first perception of the Divine as an Adamic State, 
>is
> > >it
> > > > >not clear that this perception and the ordering preceding this
> > >perception
> > > > >is out of the Divine Human of the Lord? Since this is all out of 
>the
> > > > >Divine Human of the Lord, the Word of His Divine Human, the Third
> > > > >Testament?
> > > > >
> > > > >The state of peace after Noahic flood for a corresponding state in 
>the
> > >New
> > > > >Church, is it not also out of the Divine Human of the Lord?
> > > > >
> > > > >So from my perceptive the circle of life never ends, and today with 
>the
> > > > >revelation of the Third Testament all corresponding states in a New
> > >Church
> > > > >person with the spiritual histories in this Third Testament are out 
>of
> > >the
> > > > >Lord's Divine Human. I am not able to see anything beyond this 
>today.
> > > > >
> > > > >With warm regards,
> > > > >Stephen D. Burleigh
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >From: reform-bounces@novahierosolyma.org
> > > > >[mailto:reform-bounces@novahierosolyma.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > >arcam1970@comcast.net
> > > > >Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:36 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [reform] regeneration... proceeds from the external 
>man to
> > > > >theinternal (Ascending Line) + return to the external 
>man(Descending
> > >Line)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Stephen:
> > > > >
> > > > >Good references. I trust you meditate on Divine Providence n.29 as 
>a
> > > > >strong reference for another aspect of the "Circle of Life".
> > > > >
> > > > >I take special note on this section of Genesis/Arcana Coelestia 
>you've
> > > > >quoted as I see a refinement of the traditionally understood Advent 
>of
> > >the
> > > > >Lord to save all mankind. My view involves three events: the
> > >Flood/Deluge,
> > > > >the Incarnation, and the Last Judgment/Following Advent. The Lord
> > >actually
> > > > >extended Himself discretely more in the middle event (all the way 
>into
> > >the
> > > > >material world), the Incarnation; yet the complete 
>Advent/Glorification
> > >was
> > > > >not possible without all three events. Thus three levels of heaven 
>and
> > > > >three levels of hell are formed with the three events of the
> > > > >Advent/Glorification.
> > > > >
> > > > >Richard Campbell arcam1970@comcast.net
> > > > >
> > > > >By the way, I like: levels over degrees
> > > > > heavenly over celestial
> > > > > marital over conjugial
> > > > > advent over coming
> > > > > following over second
> > > > >
> > > > >I could give you the reasons later for my choice of English words 
>over
> > >the
> > > > >ones traditionally used for the Latin words used by Swedenborg if 
>you
> > >like.
> > > > > But let this suffice for now.
> > > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >From: "Stephen D. Burleigh"
> > > > >
> > > > >Dear Reformers,
> > > > >
> > > > >In the following numbers, the Lord teaches us that regeneration
> > >proceeds
> > > > >from the external man to the internal. Here we can see the 
>progression
> > > > >from a state in which our external man rules in our natural mind 
>until
> > >our
> > > > >internal man rules over our external man at which time the evil 
>spirits
> > > > >revealing, exciting our hereditary evil affections depart and we 
>come
> > >into
> > > > >a celestial paradise. Here are the numbers (These numbers are in 
>the
> > >first
> > > > >chapter of Genesis in the Arcana Coelestia):
> > > > >"62. The times and states of man's regeneration in general and in
> > > > >particular are divided into six, and are called the days of his
> > >creation;
> > > > >for, by degrees, from being not a man at all, he be! comes a t 
>first
> > > > >something of one, and so by little and little attains to the sixth 
>day,
> > >in
> > > > >which he becomes an image of God.
> > > > >
> > > > >63. Meanwhile the Lord continually fights for him against evils and
> > > > >falsities, and by combats confirms him in truth and good. The time 
>of
> > > > >combat is the time of the Lord's working; and therefore in the 
>Prophets
> > >the
> > > > >regenerate man is called the work of the fingers of God. Nor does 
>He
> > >rest
> > > > >until love acts as principal; then the combat ceases. When the work 
>has
> > >so
> > > > >far advanced that faith is conjoined with love, it is called "very
> > >good;"
> > > > >because the Lord then actuates him, as His likeness. At the end of 
>the
> > > > >sixth day the evil spirits depart, and good spirits take their 
>place,
> > >and
> > > > >the man is introduced into heaven, or into the celestial paradise;
> > >concer
> > > > >ning which in the following chapter.
> > > > >
> > > > >64. This then is the internal sense of the Word, its veriest life,
> > >which
> > > > >does not at all appear from the sense of the letter. But so many 
>are
> > >its
> > > > >arcana that volumes would not suffice for the unfolding of them. A 
>very
> > >few
> > > > >only are here set forth, and those such as may confirm the fact 
>that
> > > > >regeneration is here treated of, and that this proceeds from the
> > >external
> > > > >man to the internal. It is thus that the angels perceive the Word. 
>They
> > > > >know nothing at all of what is in the letter, not even the 
>proximate
> > > > >meaning of a single word; still less do they know the names of the
> > > > >countries, cities, rivers, and persons, that occur so frequently in 
>the
> > > > >historical and prophetical parts of the Word. They have an idea 
>only of
> > >the
> > > > >things signified by the words and the names. Thus by Adam in 
>paradise
> > >they
> > > > >perceive the Most Anc! ient Ch urch, yet not that church, but the 
>faith
> > >in
> > > > >the Lord of that church. By Noah they perceive the church that 
>remained
> > > > >with the descendants of the Most Ancient Churc!
> > > > > h, and
> > > > >that continued to the time of Abram. By Abraham they by no means
> > >perceive
> > > > >that individual, but a saving faith, which he represented; and so 
>on.
> > >Thus
> > > > >they perceive spiritual and celestial things entirely apart from 
>the
> > >words
> > > > >and names.
> > > > >Here we can see the Ascending Line in the circle of life.
> > > > >
> > > > >Concerning this Ascending Line, we see another description of it in 
>the
> > > > >following teaching in the Second Chapter of Genesis:
> > > > >"164. The Own (proprium) of man, as before stated, is mere evil, 
>and
> > >when
> > > > >exhibited to view is most deformed, but when charity and innocence 
>from
> > >the
> > > > >Lord are insinuated into the Own (proprium), it then appears good 
>and
> > > > >beautiful (as before observed, n. 154). Charity and innocence not 
>only
> > > > >excuse the Own (proprium) (that is, what is evil and false in man), 
>but
> > >as
> > > > >it were abolish it, as may be observed in little children, in whom 
>what
> > >is
> > > > >evil and false is not merely concealed, but is even pleasing, so 
>long
> > >as
> > > > >they love their parents and one another, a! nd thei r infantile
> > >innocence
> > > > >shows itself. Hence it may be known why no one can be admitted into
> > >heaven
> > > > >unless he possesses some degree of innocence; as the Lord has said:
> > > > >Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not, 
>for of
> > > > >such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, whosoever shall 
>not
> > > > >receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter
> > >therein.
> > > > >And He took them up in His arms, put His hands upon them, and 
>blessed
> > >them
> > > > >(Mark 10:14-16)."
> > > > >So in the Ascending Line of the circle of life, the end is to have
> > >charity
> > > > >and innocence into our proprium so that it hereditary evils and
> > >falsities
> > > > >are pushed from the center to the circumference.
> > > > >
> > > > >In the Third Chapter of Genesis we see that in the circle of life 
>after
> > >an
> > > > >Ascent to a celestial state, the circle of life must continue with 
>the
> > > > >Descending Line:
> > > > >234. THE CONTENTS. The subsequent state of the church down to the 
>flood
> > >is
> > > > >here described; and as at that time the church utterly destroyed
> > >itself, it
> > > > >is foretold that the Lord would come into the world and save the 
>human
> > > > >race.
> > > > >
> > > > >235. Being unwilling to believe anything that could not be 
>apprehended
> > >by
> > > > >the senses, the sensuous part which is the "serpent" cursed itself, 
>and
> > > > >became infernal (verse 14).
> > > > >
> > > > >236. Therefore to prevent all mankind from rushing into hell, the 
>Lord
> > > > >promised that He would come into the world (verse 15).
> > > > >
> > > > >237. The church is further described by the "woman" which so loved 
>self
> > >or
> > > > >the Own as to be no longer capable of apprehending truth, although 
>a
> > > > >rational was given them that should "rule" (verse 16).
> > > > >
> > > > >238. The quality of the rational is then described, in that it
> > >consented,
> > > > >and thus cursed itself, and became infernal, so that reason no 
>longer
> > > > >remained, but ratiocination (verse 17).
> > > > >
> > > > >239. The curse and vastation are described, and also their ferine
> > >nature
> > > > >(verse 18).
> > > > >
> > > > >240. Next, their aversion to everything of faith and love; and that
> > >thus
> > > > >from being man they became not men (verse 19).
> > > > >Concerning this Descent from a celestial state in which our 
>internal
> > >man
> > > > >rules over our external man to a state in which our the external 
>man
> > >rules
> > > > >over all the goods and truths in our natural mind ("from being man
> > >(homine)
> > > > >they became not men (homines)"), we read:
> > > > >"267. Verse 17. And unto the man He said, Because thou hast 
>hearkened
> > >unto
> > > > >the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree of which I 
>commanded
> > > > >thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for 
>thy
> > >sake,
> > > > >in great sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. By 
>the
> > >"man
> > > > >hearkening to the voice of his wife" is signified the consent of 
>the
> > >man
> > > > >[vir], or rational, by which it also averted or cursed itself, and
> > > > >consequently the whole external man, denoted by "cursed is the 
>ground
> > >for
> > > > >thy sake." To "eat thereof in sorrow" mean! s that the future state 
>of
> > >his
> > > > >life would be miserable, and this even to the end of that church, 
>or
> > >"all
> > > > >the days of his life."
> > > > >
> > > > >268. That the "ground" signifies the external man, is evident from 
>what
> > >was
> > > > >previously stated concerning "earth" "ground" and "field." When man 
>is
> > > > >regenerate, he is no longer called "earth" but "ground" because
> > >celestial
> > > > >seed has been implanted in him; he is also compared to "ground" and 
>is
> > > > >called "ground" in various parts of the Word. The seeds of good and
> > >truth
> > > > >are implanted in the external man, that is, in his affection and
> > >memory,
> > > > >and not in the internal man, because there is nothing of one's Own 
>in
> > >the
> > > > >internal man, but only in the external. In the internal man are 
>goods
> > >and
> > > > >truths, and when these no longer appear to be present, the man is
> > >external
> > > > >or corporeal; they are however stored up in the internal man by the
> > >Lord,
> > > > >without the man's knowledge, as they do not come forth except when 
>the
> > > > >external man as it were dies, as is usually the case during
> > >temptations,
> > > > >misfortunes, sicknesses, and at! the ho ur of death. The rational
> > >belongs
> > > > >also to the external man (n. 118), !
> > > > > and is
> > > > >in itself a kind of medium between the internal man and the 
>external;
> > >for
> > > > >the internal man, through the rational, operates on the corporeal
> > >external.
> > > > >But when the rational consents, it separates the external man from 
>the
> > > > >internal, so that the existence of the internal man is no longer 
>known,
> > >nor
> > > > >consequently the intelligence and wisdom which are of the internal.
> > > > >
> > > > >269. That Jehovah God (that is, the Lord) did not "curse the 
>ground" or
> > >the
> > > > >external man, but that the external man averted or separated itself
> > >from
> > > > >the internal, and thus cursed itself, is evident from what was
> > >previously
> > > > >shown (n. 245).
> > > > >
> > > > >270. That to "eat of the ground in great sorrow" signifies a 
>miserable
> > > > >state of life, is evident from what precedes and follows, not to
> > >mention
> > > > >that to "eat" in the internal sense, is to live. The same is 
>evident
> > >also
> > > > >from the fact that such a state of life ensues when evil spirits 
>begin
> > >to
> > > > >fight, and the attendant angels to labor. This state of life 
>becomes
> > >more
> > > > >miserable when evil spirits begin to obtain the dominion; for they 
>then
> > > > >govern the external man, and the angels only the internal man, of 
>which
> > >so
> > > > >little remains that they can scarcely take anything thence with 
>which
> > >to
> > > > >defend the man; hence arise misery and anxiety. Dead men are seldom
> > > > >sensible of such misery and anxiety, because they are no longer 
>men,
> > > > >although they think themselves more truly so than others; for they 
>know
> > >no
> > > > >more than the brutes of what is spiritual an! d celes tial, and 
>what is
> > > > >eternal life, and like them they look downward to earthly things, 
>or
> > > > >outward to worldly ones; they favor only their Own!
> > > > > (propr
> > > > >ium), and indulge their inclinations and senses with the entire
> > >concurrence
> > > > >of the rational. Being dead, they sustain no spiritual combat or
> > > > >temptation, and were they exposed to it their life would sink under 
>its
> > > > >weight, and they could thereby curse themselves still more, and
> > >precipitate
> > > > >themselves still more deeply into infernal damnation: hence they 
>are
> > >spared
> > > > >this until their entrance into the other life, where, being no 
>longer
> > >in
> > > > >danger of dying in consequence of any temptation or misery, they 
>endure
> > > > >most grievous sufferings, which likewise are here signified by the
> > >ground
> > > > >being cursed, and eating of it in great sorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > >278. That by "returning to the ground whence he was taken" is 
>signified
> > > > >that the church would return to the external man such as it was 
>before
> > > > >regeneration, is evident from the fact that "ground" signifies the
> > >external
> > > > >man, as previously stated. And that "dust" signifies what is 
>condemned
> > >and
> > > > >infernal, is also evident from what was said of the serpent, which 
>in
> > > > >consequence of being cursed is said to "eat dust." In addition to 
>what
> > >was
> > > > >there shown as to the signification of "dust" we may add the 
>following
> > > > >passages from David:
> > > > >All those who go down to the dust shall bow before Jehovah, and 
>those
> > >whose
> > > > >soul He hath not made alive (Ps. 22:29). And in another place:
> > > > >Thou hidest Thy faces, they are troubled; Thou takest away their
> > >breath,
> > > > >they expire, and return to their dust (Ps. 104:29), which means 
>that
> > >when
> > > > >men turn away from the face of the ! Lord, t hey expire or die, and
> > >thus
> > > > >"return to the dust" that is, are condemned and become infernal.
> > > > >The circle of life never ends...Ascend from the external man to the
> > > > >internal and then Descend from the internal to the external man 
>again,
> > >the
> > > > >Ascend from the external man to the internal ......
> > > > >
> > > > >Affectionately,
> > > > >Stephen D. Burleigh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Stephen D. Burleigh"
> > > > >To: "'Organization and government issues'"
> > > > >Subject: Re: [reform] regeneration... proceeds from the external 
>man
> > > > >totheinternal (Ascending Line) + return to the 
>externalman(Descending
> > >Line)
> > > > >Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:41:19 +0000
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >reform mailing list
> > > > >reform@novahierosolyma.org
> > > > >http://novahierosolyma.org/mailman/listinfo/reform
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >reform mailing list
> > > > >reform@novahierosolyma.org
> > > > >http://novahierosolyma.org/mailman/listinfo/reform
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >





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